SPEAKER_00: 0:09

Hello and welcome to Uncanny Butt Club. I'm my dictators, Bill, and joining me today is my co-host Adam Ward. Yo. Hello. Comic books, you know how it is.

SPEAKER_01: 0:23

I feel like we've been building to these three issues for a while now. I mean, not that not even that these three issues are like the culmination of the story. Like, I feel like we're just kind of using this as a launch pad into the next big thing. And the next big thing is a very, very big thing. It is a very big thing. Yeah. A very big thing that's been, I think, forced into being in every X-Men movie and cinema andor television or anything related to the X-Men. Um, and that is Dark Phoenix.

SPEAKER_00: 0:59

Speaking of which, I watched the newest Dark Phoenix movie just to be able to speak to it. Yeah, and how was that? I have not watched it. It was a huge mistake. I was by myself on a Friday. My family was all gone. It took me like two or three tries to make my way through it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:27

Wow, that's not a good sign.

SPEAKER_00: 1:29

Like, I got like 20 minutes in, I was like, uh, I'm just not feeling this. And then had to pick it up again later. There were some elements that I was like, hey, this is a good change. And then there was a lot of elements where it seemed like they really wanted to just borrow from X-Men 3, The Last Stand. And I felt like maybe we shouldn't or didn't need to do that.

SPEAKER_01: 1:55

Yeah, there seems to be a bit of hesitancy in Hollywood specifically to try new things with the X-Men. Like even them talking about like this, you know, forthcoming reboot that we're gonna get from Disney, they've really kind of talked about how they want to bring in a new team that's young and kind of like retell the same story that we've already kind of told repeatedly. So I I like I think it's just like I would almost prefer we're stepping into an established team, you know, kind of like what we have what we have where we are now, right? Like where Scott has established himself as a leader, we don't need Xavier anymore, we don't need his baggage and drama. Like we can just we can just do stuff. I actually really like this team and would not be opposed to seeing a version of this on screen. Like we've kind of seen the elements, right? Like we've seen Nightcrawler, we've seen Scott and Gene and Logan and Storm and like those people have all been used, but I don't know that we've really seen them in this capacity, and I would love to see it.

SPEAKER_00: 3:05

That would be interesting. I am kind of thinking we're gonna see like a mixture of these people. Maybe I think they'll bring over, I assume, like Beast from like the original X-Men, but I don't really think we need Angel or Iceman. Sorry to Angel and Iceman. And then they'll probably take like a couple characters from the like the 90s cartoon and just mishmash all those teams together and create like a this will be the the intro team that we start with.

SPEAKER_01: 3:36

Yeah, maybe. I think we would very likely see some, yeah, like some version of like the X-Men's greatest hits and less so of these um, you know, side characters.

SPEAKER_00: 3:49

What if we just jump straight into the middle of like a really complicated Summers family tree situation with you know cables in there? We've got Rachel Summers, who is like their kid, sort of maybe from like a different timeline kind of something something. I mean, there's more like different weird Summerses from all over that they can pull in. Just make it extra confusing for like introducing it to new audiences.

SPEAKER_01: 4:16

I know there's like a lot of different ways that they could probably go, even from a story perspective. I actually think something like the Hellfire Club could be like a very cool setup, right? Like you have this secret cabal that's kind of operating within the public and nobody really knows about them, and they somehow know the intricacies and the weaknesses of the X-Men without them really having an understanding as to how. However, and I cannot stress this enough, we cannot do like a repeat of like let's just go down the well with Gene again. Like, we need like I wouldn't even be upset if Gene isn't even involved, at least in like the initial film. Like if they're if they're like just off and like we have whatever our core team, blah, blah, blah. Like, I think it needs to be more of like a team movie rather than kind of like what the other films had had become where they're latched on to Wolverine as like a main character, or even the very first X-Men movie was kind of like a it was a s it was a story of Logan and and Rogue, really. Yeah. And everybody else was just like an accompanying character with like Gene Gray kind of thrown in this love triangle between her and Scott and Logan, which you know obviously is an important story thread that we've seen in the comics and you know has been a big part of the comic history of the X-Men. But I feel like that's a trap waiting to happen, and it's nothing new that we haven't seen. So like maybe you go with uh Sinister, right? Like maybe it's a Mr. Sinister type of situation.

SPEAKER_00: 5:49

And I hope it's over the top, more modern Sinister, though, just like the really goofy, very evil and stuff still, but just like outrageously himself.

SPEAKER_01: 6:01

I mean, you could even go, I don't know, like an ultimate X-Men route and do something totally crazy and different. That would be interesting. I I don't I don't know. We'll see what happens, anyways.

SPEAKER_00: 6:14

We'll see. Comics. Usually we delay if we don't have good stuff to talk about. Sometimes we definitely have good stuff to talk about, so I'm not really sure why we went on this tangent, but um, you know, because of Dark Phoenix. That's it's all tied together. It's all connected. It's it's all Fox's second Dark Phoenix movie's fault. I will venture to watch it. Um I wouldn't.

SPEAKER_01: 6:42

Well, I mean, I just want now I need to know.

SPEAKER_00: 6:45

Now I need to see it. It's a bummer. The thing about it that I like the most is that it involved going to space, and that's where like the Phoenix, you know, went into Gene or whatever. So like that part I appreciated that it actually involved space. I thought that the setup that they did for like why they went made sense to me. I was like, okay, yeah, like if you're not gonna be doing like a rescue mission, okay, we're we're we're getting off the rails. Issue 132. In issue 132, we see the X-Men wisely decide against returning home, instead seeking refuge with Warren Worthington III, or Angel. Scott discusses their recent attack by the White Queen and Hellfire Club, and Warren announces that he inherited a membership to the club and points Scott in their direction. Scott and Gene have a romantic rendezvous where Gene removes his visor and uses her powers to hold back his optic blasts. We cut to a week later and see the X-Men enacting a plan to infiltrate the club during its birthday celebration. Wolverine and Nightcrawler take the sewers, with everyone else being allowed to walk through the front. Wolverine does a checkoff's gun by stripping the insulation off power lines headed to the club, meaning that as the sewer water rises, they will eventually lead to a surprise blackout. We get to meet the rest of the Hellfire inner circle and see Donald Pierce, Harry Leland, Sebastian Shaw, and Wingard. Wingard cuts in while Scott and Gene are dancing and eventually leads her upstairs. Scott attempts to go after them and recognizes Jason without his disguise as being Mastermind, the master of illusion. It's too late though, as Gene Grey, transformed into the Black Queen, emerges and blasts Scott. Colossus and Storm hear his scream and run upstairs, but are confronted by Shaw, who absorbs kinetic energy as his mutant power and makes short work of them. Wolverine and Nightcrawler likewise don't have much luck, with the Cyborg Pierce capturing Kurt, and Leland using his gravitational powers to increase Wolverine's mass until he breaks through the floor and is swept away by the sewer. The Hellfire Club celebrate their victory over the X-Men, but Shaw grows paranoid about Wingard supplanting him as the club's chairman, now that he has the power of the Phoenix, and tries to highlight that it was a group effort. We end the issue with a sick panel of a very angry Wolverine who did not perish as the Hellfire Club thinks, announcing, okay, suckers, you've taken your best shot. Now it's my turn. Our teaser for next issue is Wolverine Alone, Nuff said. I'm really happy actually.

SPEAKER_01: 9:38

Let's just start with the ending scene because this image of Logan like crawling around in the sewer is awesome. I was so happy to see it. And even the, you know, we'll get into this, but the opening scenes of the following book, uh, the following issue are probably the highlight of that entire uh kind of middle issue that we're going to be talking about.

SPEAKER_00: 10:03

Yeah, I love this last panel. Like if we were to make a collage of some of the standout best single panels in this run so far, this would definitely, you know, be in that top five, top ten sort of area. It'd be included.

SPEAKER_01: 10:18

Yeah, John Byrne is uh showing up for that um that illustration that we see at the very end. He's just kind of showing off in some of these. Yeah, there's actually another I'm I'm just gonna mention it now rather than later, just because we're talking about John. But I made a note in issue 134, and we can kind of get more into the nitty-gritty, but there's another panel in issue 134 that is just so awesome. And John did an incredible, like masterful job at illustrating it.

SPEAKER_00: 10:49

And we we we can talk about it when we get there. It's been a few days, so off the top of my head, I don't know which one you are referencing, and I am very looking forward to uh seeing which one it is when we get to it. Yeah, a little recap of it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 11:02

So we get we get a bunch of character introductions here. Like we've kind of seen Shaw a little bit. You kind of went over this in the intro, but I'm just gonna do a bit of a like a level set on who we're meeting and what they can do. Perfect. Sounds great. We meet Sebastian Shaw, he's you know, the middleman of the entire uh Hellfire Club, right? Like he's the the chairman, if you will. I think actually that is what his position is, but he has a very interesting power set that isn't like really well explained, at least initially, but his abilities allow him to absorb kinetic energy in any form they take. So we see this confrontation between him and Colossus. And I actually felt like this was a really strong showing of Shaw as being uh a real force against the X-Men. Unfortunately, again, and I'm beating a dead horse here. Once again, Peter is just relegated to being the butt of the joke and how they basically show off the strength. Like we keep I understand that like Peter is a big uh abominable force, right? Like he's a big guy, his entire repertoire strength, he's supposed to be their heavy hitter. Is he though? Because like I feel as though the other members of the team hit even harder than he does. Well, Storm and Gene both historically, as we've seen, have been the closers of most of the confrontations that they've had.

SPEAKER_00: 12:37

Yeah, I mean I would describe them as like the heavies, and like he's more of like he's like a heavy header in terms of like he's their tank, I guess. If we're going to incorporate some video game terms. Yeah. It's um The problem is he doesn't use his head. I don't think that's the problem. I think it's just the writing that's the problem. Well, maybe. I think I I think a lot of it can sort of be explained by, you know, he's very much I mean, he's not very much the young one of the group because they're not that much older than him, but a lot of times he's portrayed as being the young one. And I feel like that sometimes translates into him just going into a situation without thinking and using his head.

SPEAKER_01: 13:27

I I think what you're trying to hit at is he is the least experienced compared to the others. Like when you kind of look at how they use their powers, right? Like we have Gene and Scott, they're original members, they're very well trained in how to utilize their powers appropriately. We have Logan, who is older than all of them, and is able to utilize his powers appropriately and he knows what he can and can't do. We have Storm, who has been trained long before joining the X-Men to be a survivor and was basically bringing life to these, you know, the these drought-stricken places in Africa, and has demonstrated her abilities through many confrontations. And then you had Sean, who is obviously no longer with the team, who was also an original member and incredibly powerful and knowledgeable. When you kind of look at it from that perspective, Peter, sorry, I'm not including Nightcrawler. Nightcrawler is also very well experienced with using his powers and has gotten better at using them, as we've seen, right? Like he can teleport with other people, he can teleport while falling appropriately. Like he's been able to include his powers, and we've seen that actually illustrated in part of his development. Whereas with Peter, we just haven't gotten there.

SPEAKER_00: 14:54

Those powers are mostly on off switch. Flesh boy, metal boy, and then I think it's you know super strength and like added constitution, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 15:04

Well, I mean, still, as you said, like maybe it's a development of uh being more tactful with those powers. Maybe it's determining, you know, when you're creating your body to be more dense, like maybe you're transforming between his metal form and his non-metal form to increase his speed and velocity, and then transforming in and hitting harder. Like there's a bunch of different ways that you could probably approach it. But we've been promised this kind of story thread many times now where Peter is supposed to be finding his place on the team. And so far, it has been pretty much the same thing where Peter just kind of gets his ass kicked, and it's really to showcase the power of the villain or the antagonist or whatever it might be in the moment. In this case, it's Shaw, who just takes Peter's hits like they're absolutely nothing. And unfortunately for Peter, like Shaw's powers are absorbing kinetic energy, so he is really a terrible matchup there. But we've seen this with other villains as well. So maybe it's just a coincidence that he is constantly being put in this confrontation with enemies that are polar opposite of him and are able to really counteract his strengths. And I'm getting way off track with having having a level set of the powers, but this is a rant I needed to get off my chest because I still feel like Peter hasn't had the moment to really shine. Yes, he defeated Proteus, and that was wonderful to see, but even then it was just kind of like thrown in there, it felt like it didn't really feel like it was his story, like his his culmination of finding his place. And end of rant on Peter. Tell me about this Donald Pierce dude. Yeah, Donald Pierce. Cyborg, not like C3PO, but like part man, part machine, all evil. Yeah, he's a bit of a racist. He's very anti-mutant.

SPEAKER_00: 17:11

It's a weird company for him to be keeping.

SPEAKER_01: 17:14

It really is. I did a bit of like looking into his history, and I don't want to like get too deep into it because it might come up again down the road. But like, let's just say he is a cyborg with the self-professed strength of the juggernaut is how he kind of positions himself and describes his powers even in combat. And actually, once again, he gets into a fight with Colossus where now you're getting ahead of yourself.

SPEAKER_00: 17:42

He kind of wins up him again. I know. We'll get to that eventually. But to be fair, he says power of a juggernaut, not the juggernaut. I don't know if that was clear for what you said. I mean, is there any other but the juggernaut? I think it's a distinction. I think it's just like uh lowercase J. Yeah. Well, it does look like it well, it's all uppercase letters, but I think it's lowercase juggernaut.

SPEAKER_01: 18:08

The the lowercase juggernaut. The last member we kind of get introduced to here is Harry Leland, and I think he kind he has one of the more interesting of the three powers because like Shaw's isn't very visual. Pierce is a cyborg, not a mutant, who cares?

SPEAKER_02: 18:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 18:24

You have Leland, who is this big kind of chonky dude, like he's very hefty. He's a unit. And his powers is to increase the mass of an object or a person, making it extremely heavy. Which is a little one-sided. It would it would be more maybe a little more interesting if he could lighten things as well. Maybe he can, and he's only done it the one way, or we just haven't seen it the other way. Fun seeing him take out Logan the way he did, and even Logan seemed a little stressed by the situation. I I feel like we've kind of seen this play out a couple different times uh over the last number of issues. In the first issue, most of these, they have some sort of confrontation with the villain. The villain gets up gets the upper hand because the X-Men's unfamiliar with them. Then we kind of have some stuff that happens in the middle just to kind of like keep the ball rolling down until we get to the third issue where the X-Men have kind of learned from their mistakes and are able to overcome them in some way, shape, or form.

SPEAKER_00: 19:28

I have some notes on that and how we're getting ahead of ourselves, but I appreciated how in 134 they didn't necessarily have that, and the X-Men easily triumph over everyone. There was some McGuffin stuff happening, though. I'll I'll I'll save, I'll save it, I'll save it.

SPEAKER_01: 19:49

Anywho, that's our power set. Mysteriously, no white queen, no Emma Frost.

SPEAKER_00: 19:56

She is presumed dead? I don't remember which issue in one of these. Yeah, because she goes toe-to-toe with Gene, right? Yeah. And I didn't get this at all from the previous issues, but in one of these it makes mention that she preferred like suicide to capture, and it alluded to like she killed herself with you know sending that last ditch psychic attack, and I didn't get that at all. No, neither did I from reading it. So I think that's sort of just uh they were trying to be like, oh, she's not coming back, but uh she does. Trying to make it make sense, sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 20:39

Well, it was a real shame not seeing her, I will say, regardless. I I felt like Sebastian Shaw was uh was a highlight of this issue. Very cool seeing him really dominate, even like this scene of him dominating Storm in combat, and we kind of get this final scene of him just dragging her by the cape after beating both her and Colossus, and then just throws her on the pile of X-Men. Yeah. So, anyways, I felt like that was a very strong showing by Shaw, and I think really kind of sets him up to be a power player in the future. So I was I was happy to see that.

SPEAKER_00: 21:15

So, Mastermind, we finally have our identity of uh Wingard revealed. My knowledge of him is mostly just this story, and then you know, some spoilery things down the line. I know he shows up in Krakoa for a little bit, but I don't really have a whole lot to say about him. I assume he must have came up at some point during the previous run of the comics. But apart from him, maybe even in spite of him, the Hellfire Inner Circle, and you've already sort of covered this already. I think it's a pretty cool power set for the group of villains. I like that we get a little bit of variety. You know, we have the illusion dude, whatever, but then we have the people that are actually participating in the fight, I guess. You know, Leland, as you mentioned, has a cool power. Pierce is a robot, Shaw has a cool power. If Emmer were here, she is a cool power. It's uh it's a good cabal of mutants to and a and a robot for them to be fighting. It's a good little an enemy group that they've assembled. I'm very happy with it.

SPEAKER_01: 22:20

Yeah, I think it would have been nice to see, I don't know, more of a flex from some of the other members. Yeah, they did get the upper hand in this issue, but maybe it would have been cool to see more of like Pierce's abilities as a cyborg. We don't really get much of that.

SPEAKER_00: 22:36

Um It was mostly just I'm okay with you tearing off my arm. Yeah. It was I imagine that's kind of how he sounds. Kripes, you're a flamin' robot. Uh Wolverine.

SPEAKER_01: 22:54

It was it was it was fun also seeing that like this group is not well tinkered, right? Like this group has its own inner politics that's kind of playing out. We see them having uh a bit of a power struggle between Shaw and Wingard, where Wingard really wants to now take over, and Shaw isn't a fool and sees this. And that was kind of a cool acknowledgement to kind of see play out, like even though like we're it's like we're trying to advance a story that isn't gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00: 23:33

Yeah, I mean, over these few issues, we kind of have a little bit of a minor political intrigue sort of storyline going on with them. It is nice to have a group of villains where Shaw is kind of the leader, but not in the sense of it's one leader bossing around a bunch of underlings. It's a group of people who will all probably be willing to backstab each other to raise their raise themselves up in the group.

SPEAKER_01: 24:02

Yeah, and I think that really gives it a very different dynamic than some of the other confrontations and groups that we've seen, right? Like a lot of the other kind of villains we've seen the X-Mant one doing. Yeah, they've just they've really just kind of had them be one guy and a bunch of underlings who go off and do their thing. So it's it's nice to see a bit of internal conflict happening. And I think if we would have seen this play out over several issues, maybe it would have made it more impactful. Maybe if we had seen this kind of uh inner monologue from Shaw take place in like a couple issues ago, like maybe even during the Proteus arc or even during the last three books, uh, you know, where we get the conflict between the X-Men and Emma Frost and them finding Kitty and all this other stuff, who we do not see at all, by the way.

SPEAKER_00: 24:58

Um, she's at school. Is she? The Hellfire the Hell Yes, the Hellfire Club is no place for a teenager. I wasn't even I wasn't even thinking that, but like, you know, we see I mean she's not going to Xavier school yet. She's just like in school. Well, regardless. Her family's deciding on which private school to send her to, the Emma Frost one or the Xavier one.

SPEAKER_01: 25:26

The dead lady or the not dead dead man, I guess.

SPEAKER_00: 25:31

Not yet.

SPEAKER_01: 25:32

Spoilers, holy. Dies like eight times. Are they an X-Men? They've probably died. RAP. That's just the truth. Speaking of Kitty Pride, though, in this kind of opening sequence we get with um this private conversation that Scott's trying to have with Warren, I just want had a couple of uh of notes that I kind of felt were a bit interesting. We see Scott again really showing why he's the leader of the X-Men, right? Like he's anticipated that the X-Mansion's been compromised in some way. They think there might be some sort of mole on the team. Like he's really trying to figure out why the Hellfire Club had this one-up on them and how they know so much about the X-Men. And he really tries to remove them off the board, right? Like he's taking the X-Men off the playing field. We're gonna go someplace where they very likely do not have access to us in some way, and Angel really provided that opportunity. So I felt like Scott did a fantastic job. Yet again, Scott, number one leader, screw Charles Xavier. Hell yeah. We also see this interaction where Scott is talking about Kitty and like kind of recanting what had happened over the last couple of issues, right? Like the Hellfire called got the one up on us while Charles and a bunch of my X-Men colleagues were off in, you know, wherever they were, Philadelphia, right? Chicago, Chicago. Chicago. And he refers this stuck out to me. He refers to Kitty as a neo-mutant.

SPEAKER_00: 27:12

They did that in those initial issues with Kitty and Dazzler, too, I think.

SPEAKER_01: 27:17

So that got me thinking: like, what is the difference between a mutant and a neo-mutant? Do you have any indication? Do you have an idea?

SPEAKER_00: 27:25

I thought about looking it up and decided that I didn't care enough and that I was just gonna assume it meant like a newly emerging power set for a mutant. You are on the money, man.

SPEAKER_01: 27:40

That is exactly what it means.

SPEAKER_00: 27:41

It it is glad I saved myself 15 seconds.

SPEAKER_01: 27:44

It is uh it is a reference to a newly emerged mutant whose powers have only recently manifested.

SPEAKER_00: 27:51

I'm okay with them dropping that term in the uh newer runs of X-Men.

SPEAKER_01: 27:57

And there's a good reason for that, actually, because Chris uh Claremont actually does a story later on that happens in the 90s where there is like a whole story involving like a species of mutants or people or something called the Neos or something along those lines. So that the term kind of gets pulled into a different direction to mean something else.

SPEAKER_00: 28:24

You know, there's even a better reason for why it gets dropped. Because it's a bad, bad wording for it. I was gonna say no more mutants, they don't have to worry about neo-mutants if uh no new mutants. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 28:37

Yeah, too true. I wanted to provide that clarity because I was curious what it meant, but clearly I'm just dumb, and you and probably other people figured this out already. Context clues. One thing I did kind of feel irritated by was this Gene coming up and being like, hey, you guys have been up here for hours. You've been up here talking for hours. And it's like, what? They just got here. Someone mentioned my name. Yeah, it made me feel like, oh, like, did Gene just manifest this idea that they've been there for hours?

SPEAKER_00: 29:12

Because it like reading the issue did not give me that sort of uh Well, you know, they probably talked about whatever stuff first. Hey, are you on the page right now where they're like, hey, you've been up here for hours? I'm not, but I can be. There's something wrong with Angel's shirt. Is it the back? Yeah. Yeah. It's very it's an open it's an open back. I don't understand how it works. Did they I don't want to spend time in this. Also, speaking of Angel, what was the deal with the kiss between Warren and Gene? Maybe that's how they kissed in the eighties with um uh friends. They're not gonna be like, Well, he's always been like he's been like uh well, he's rich, so When you're rich, you act European. Like Emma Frost. Yeah, you're sophisticated. Yeah, he's sophisticated, so he kisses on the mouth. Like uh I thought it was weird.

SPEAKER_01: 30:11

Didn't they do that on Family Feud back in the 70s and 80s? Wasn't that like what the host did? Kiss people on the mouth? Probably. It's weird, man. I don't know. It's rich people stuff. Yeah, rich people stuff. Aside from like the kind of chat that they have, it felt like Angel is just interjected here for no real reason. Maybe maybe it'll come up again in Dark Phoenix. Like there's this.

SPEAKER_00: 30:34

I think it's a nice way to incorporate his character just as like a little check-in, hang out with him. Scott needs someone completely removed from his current team that he can bounce these ideas off of. Just because, like you said, there could be a mole, so he's got to discuss it with someone outside the situation. So he comes to someone he grew up with. With a soft accusation in there given uh And with a sick house in the middle of nowhere where the enemies can't track them.

SPEAKER_01: 31:06

Unless Angel is the enemy within, but he said he's not, so we'll take that for the truth that it is. Although weird, because like I mean, like, yes, the X-Men get kind of caught. Like, they are able to see through their really terrible disguises the second they walk in through the door. But wouldn't Shaw and all the other kind of inner circle members be aware that Warren is a former X-Men and that he would have access to the club in some capacity? Maybe that's how they knew where they were gonna come, but they seem surprised.

SPEAKER_00: 31:40

They might not know, because the I feel like the original X-Men was like a little less public. So they probably don't necessarily know his secret identity, possibly. And he inherited the membership. He's only gone there once. Or so he said. So he says, maybe he's the mole. He's could be the mole. I mean, we know it's cerebro, but it could be him. He could be the molecular Warhawk.

SPEAKER_01: 32:10

Overall, I thought it was a pretty fun issue. Definitely. Seeing this confrontation with Hellfire that we've kind of been building towards, seeing Gene kind of become the black queen. That it was a lot of fun. I really liked it. Um it was uh it set things up to kind of fall into place and takes all the pieces that have kind of been laid out in front of us over the last couple of issues and gives us the some sort of payoff at least, like this confrontation finally. We get to see Sebastian Shaw like kick everybody's ass just being topless and like green tights and a sash belt. So yeah, the sick bow in his hair. Yeah, man. I'm digging Shaw. What can I say? Emma's not here anymore.

SPEAKER_00: 32:54

I gotta support somebody, and I'm standing Shaw. His powers are kinetic absorption and capitalism. Just like uh any proper aristocrat. I agree with you. Great issue. It's a good teeing us up for what's to come.

SPEAKER_01: 33:10

Yeah, which is starts on a high note.

SPEAKER_00: 33:12

Which is Wolverine Alone. That's what it says. Why don't you hit us with the Wolverine Alone synopsis? Issue 133 starts with Wolverine's solo mission to infiltrate and rescue the other X-Men. He defeats a number of Hellfire goons more brutally than he probably would have if the other X-Men were around. We see the Hellfire inner circle gloating over their victory, and see what Jean, now the Black Queen, sees when she looks at her teammates. We get a brief flashback to when Jean held back Scott's optic blasts and learned that the two established a permanent psychic rapport. We take a quick break from New York to hang with Sean and Moira. Sean is enjoying the retired life, but Moira is full of worry over the latest gene scans that Charles sent her. She notes to Sean that something, or someone, has removed nearly all of the psychic circuit breakers that Gene's mind established. Speaking of psychic rapports, we also learn that Xavier has been unable to re-establish the one he previously had with the X-Men. Charles also confides in Angel that he resented seeing Scott lead the X-Men and recognizes that he's made some mistakes. Wolverine makes his way to the main party area, but is soon surrounded by weirdos and barrister wigs who beat on him with clubs. Scott attempts to reach Gene psychically, but loses a duel in the astral plane to Mastermind. The issue ends with Mastermind stabbing Scott seemingly fatally, as Nightcrawler notes that Scott isn't moving or breathing. Well, in fairness, he he full on says he's he's dead.

SPEAKER_01: 34:58

But not dead dead. I mean, you don't know that. Okay, well, you do know that because you know what happens in the next issue, but they didn't know that. Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe. Oh my gosh. I just looked at the panel again of Logan and the sewer. Man. Sungry dude. It really lived up to it. Like, frankly, I the whole Logan subplot that we kind of get in this issue is phenomenal. It it makes it the only true thing that I really absolutely loved. I could have had an entire book of Logan just trying to infiltrate the Hellfire Club, slowly taking enemies out. But I will take what we got because we get a lot of brutality from Logan. We see him take enemies out in ways that we know we wouldn't get if he was surrounded by Scott, especially. But we get an awesome scene where he takes out a couple different goons, and there's one left, and he's holding this gun and he's pointing it at Logan, and Logan is just like smirking at him, and he's he he he's holding up his hands and he's welcoming the goon to take him on, and he says something to the other one. I'm gonna get like, hey, I know what you're thinking here. You know, I'm hurt, he's five meters away from me. I got a full clip of ammo, I can take him. And he and the guy just like drops the gun and then Logan dashes and takes him out. But it's it's a such a funny sequence, like this guy just totally acknowledging that I can't beat Logan. I cannot beat this Wolverine guy.

SPEAKER_00: 36:40

No. Uh on the subject of that, I think this might be the first usage of the words doing what he does best. We get that in like the second page. Uh Wolverine never stops, never slows, each move blending into the next in a frightening display of destruction. He's doing what he does best and having the time of his life. He really is having fun. Yeah, he really is on his face.

SPEAKER_01: 37:11

Even the end scene with Logan getting like taking on these how did you describe them? Goons. Goons, hellfire.

SPEAKER_00: 37:21

Oh, the weird barristers and wigs. Yeah, yeah, with like Billy clubs, or weirdos and barrister wigs with clubs, yeah. That was one of the oddest choices. It feels on brand, but it's still odd. It I I felt appropriate for the Hellfire Club.

SPEAKER_01: 37:38

They kind of have that motif that we see, like even the inner circle kind of addresses like that, like a British aristocrat. And so I I I guess they expect the staff to embody a similar 18th century sort of 16th century appeal. I don't even know what century that would be. This is all to say. I really, really love the Wolverine stuff. I thought it was great. Everything else, eh. I thought it was okay. I I wasn't a huge fan of the jumping around that kind of happens in this issue where we get this like interlude is almost like how it's like I think maybe that is the interlude that we get. We get two of them, which I just don't like because it's we're like interjecting this into the middle of a of the story, and it's like I get that like Charles is kind of like reflecting on his failures and acknowledging that like he was jealous of Scott and that he's been trained. Which I think we're happy about.

SPEAKER_00: 38:37

It is nice to see that acknowledged of him being like, Yeah, I kinda suck, and yeah, that's on me.

SPEAKER_01: 38:46

Because he does suck. He should go back to space and we should just forget about him. Maybe he will die soon and I will have my wish. R.I.P. Charles. R.I.P. Charles. I felt like it was fine, like in terms of like the scene itself was like a nice acknowledgement, but it just felt like it was thrown in. Yeah. Um, and similar, like at least the Moira situation made a little bit more sense to include. It's like a foreshadowing. Yeah, exactly. And and even like I don't even know if it's foreshadowing, really, because we've known everything she has said, right? Like, yeah. Maybe it's spelling it out a little bit more clear, like Jason is something could be for the people that just jumped in this issue.

SPEAKER_00: 39:29

Very possible. Didn't didn't read the previous ones, or just to like, you know, kind of look into the camera and waggle your eyebrows a little bit. Like, remember. Yeah, remember everyone. Remember what's going on. You saw it in the last issue.

SPEAKER_01: 39:44

It was kind of talked about in this one.

SPEAKER_00: 39:47

It is nice uh just to see Sean enjoying his retirement, yeah, earned life of running around in a sweatsuit and scarf and asking Moira if she wants to fool around. He's a bit cheeky with her, uh, which I appreciate because that's uh good couple goals.

SPEAKER_01: 40:03

And they are uh in the uh the Europe, so they are allowed to be cheeky. What do they say? It's like 500 meters or 500 miles from the Arctic Circle or something like that. It's like where they're located. Man, that would be freezing. It's a weird way to just say Scotland.

SPEAKER_00: 40:21

Yeah, yeah. I I mean it's on a remote island, so it's not on the mainland. All of 500 miles below the Arctic Circle. I think they just want to let Americans know that it's brisk. It be cold. That's why he has the scarf.

SPEAKER_01: 40:36

Was there anything else that you really liked about this issue? Uh I I guess like the Scott and Gene stuff, this like psychic rapport and kind of seeing confine in one another.

SPEAKER_00: 40:48

Yeah, but like it made more sense than like the other two. I liked them going back to the whole like, you know, getting, you know, it it kind of feels weird after the fact, but it felt like a good detail to move to this issue versus the last one, which already had a lot going on. And it didn't necessarily feel like a, oh, this is how we'll like you, we wrote ourselves into a corner. It felt a more planned. I like the plan. I didn't really dig the whole astral plane fight necessarily. And I think the word that you used either earlier before we started to record or in like a text was that the second issue kind of meanders. Yeah. Overall it was sort of fine, but I mean, I don't have like a ton of notes. It kind of it really like, like you said, does jump around quite a bit to just like everything everywhere. Not a whole lot happens, it doesn't move things forward that much.

SPEAKER_01: 41:54

No, it kind of keeps us like in the same gear a little bit. Like we have the Hellfire Club kind of rejoicing in their splendors, and then kind of like just, hey everybody, remember this?

SPEAKER_00: 42:06

R it might be the same goblet of wine that Shaw has now from the first issue. It's impossible to say.

SPEAKER_01: 42:14

I did like the detail of them putting like this quartz mask on Scott. Well, they know all their powers, they know what to do. And I've I've I've thought of this in the past. I don't know that we've really discussed it, but like sometimes I just feel like Scott and some of the other X-Men, like the villains, and maybe it is just like, oh well, they just don't know. But we've seen like a couple instances where, especially earlier on, where Scott uses his optic beams because it's just like not something they account for, even like them. Them taking Storm's like lock picks away in this issue, and that kind of became a plot point. It was really fun seeing this entire this entire quartz helmet on top of Scott.

SPEAKER_00: 43:05

I think the smartest thing about it is that it stops him from being able to talk without. Because then he can't he can't give direction to any of the other team, he can't try to communicate with Gene that way. He's sort of just locked away, you know. They know he's the tactical mind behind everything, just keep him isolated, and yet not isolated enough, right?

SPEAKER_01: 43:29

Imagine if they just removed him from the room entirely, right? Like they Or cut his head off. Well, well, they make a point that they don't want to kill them, right? They wanna do some sinister level stuff of like eugenics of making Mr.

SPEAKER_00: 43:47

Sinister eugenics? Genetics? Essex-Men. In issue 134. We quickly see that Scott did not, in fact, die in the previous issue. Wolverine has somehow managed to escape the dog pile of clubs and breaks through the door to where the X-Men and Hellfire inner circle are. Mastermind commands Gene to take care of Wolverine, but we also see her unlock Scott's eye-blocking helmet while everyone is looking at Wolverine. It turns out that seeing Scott almost die in the astral plane is what was able to break her free from Mastermind's control. Scott is free, blasts Pierce, frees the remaining X-Men, and blasts Leland over a balcony into the party below. Scott knows that he can't blast Shaw, so he destroys the floor beneath him instead. Cyclops directs Peter to take on Pierce and Storm and Nightcrawler to go after Shaw, with him going after Mastermind. We see Wolverine diving down toward Leland, who makes the mistake of using his power of mass instinctively, and then we see an even heavier Wolverine crash on top of Leland and they crash through the floor. Beast is hanging out at the Avengers mansion when he sees an alert that the X-Men are on a rampage. He decides not to alert the Avengers and proceeds alone. Pierce is able to escape Colossus and meets up with Shaw, who likewise was able to escape his fight. Mastermind causes a panic upstairs with his powers, but we then see Wolverine's checkoff's gunfire and the power goes out. Wolverine then shows up by Scott, who asks what happened to Leland. Wolverine only replies, Don't ask. Gene confronts Mastermind, and we learn he was only able to go beyond his illusions into psychic manipulation due to a device that Emma had built for him. In a rage, Gene expands his mind so that it touches the entire universe. His brain breaks, and Gene says that he won't be coming back from his trip. She keeps her dirty doings from Scott's mind, and the team flees the club. It seems the X-Men have escaped scot-free when they hear a threat from Gene and turn dramatically to see her declaring, No longer am I the woman you knew. I am fire and life incarnate. Now and forever, I am Phoenix. The issue ends with the teaser of next, Dark Phoenix. Bump bump. Um not the movie to be clear.

SPEAKER_01: 46:37

Like we end the last issue, right? Scott's on the floor. We have Nightcrawler exclaiming that Cyclops is dead, and then immediately resolve this on the first page. That's just like comics in this era, though. It's just like, could you imagine like I would have loved, okay? I would have loved for this. They they could have kept this in, like, they could have ha made it happen, but imagine the impact that this would have had on the team. Imagine the emotional impact even more on Gene that would have unlocked this like psychic, you know, uh hold that Wingard has on her. It it would have just had so much more heart and and value to readers to see Scott like is still alive. It's maybe they move his body out of the room, maybe he just comes too later on, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00: 47:31

And I'm um so you're suggesting that a team of people embarrassed or wigs should have picked him up and like escorted him out of the room when everyone thought he was dead. Sure. Like whatever it might be. At first, I thought you were arguing that Scott should have died here.

SPEAKER_01: 47:47

No, no, no, no, no. Like, I think it's fine that he didn't. That's a bold call. No, no, no, no, no. I think it just would have been more impactful if they didn't reveal that he was alive on the first page.

SPEAKER_00: 47:58

Yeah. I think that's just like uh a classic pitfall of a lot of comics of this era of like he's dead, and then you start with like, or is he JK.

SPEAKER_01: 48:09

I, you know, the way we're reading this, right? And we've talked about this a bit before, right? We're consuming this in a way that it wasn't originally meant to be consumed, which is all at once. But when you think about an iPad, when you think about this being released a month after seeing that final scene of Scott being dead or proclaimed to be dead, and then you pick up this book being like, Oh my god, I need to find out what happened. And like you open the first page and he's like, Oh, he's fine.

SPEAKER_00: 48:37

I think most people probably assumed he would be fine. I'm a little surprised it's immediately he's just on his knee. He's like, It's all right, team, I'm back in the game. Versus maybe he gets stuck in the astro plane and they need to, you know, Gene breaks free and has to save him, or Professor X feels his fake death and knows he's stuck and has to intervene and save him, and then he's able to re-establish his rapport that he's been missing, blah, blah, blah. They felt like other routes we could have went with it versus just I'm good.

SPEAKER_01: 49:13

And that's really all I'm alluding to here. It just felt like it could have been more meaningful. Like you you could have kept the bait and switch, right? Like that, that's fine. I don't think Scott should have died here. But to just give it more meaning when we throw that around, I think would be better. Especially at this point, because it's not like you know, a lot of characters are dying. It like the you know, the rule of resurrection is hasn't really been a thing yet. It's been years since they killed Thunderbird at this point. Exactly, right? And we saw that impact that played out over several issues. And I and I think like the reason that we have this developed Scott that we have today is largely because he lost Thunderbird in that fight. So there you go. There's my two cents. I I feel like it just could have been better. Like, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 50:09

On the opposite side of that coin, this guy kind of kicks ass once he's freed, huh? He really uh just takes control of that situation really fast. Yeah, he really does.

SPEAKER_01: 50:21

He is able, and I mean, like, it speaks to how serious of a threat the Hellfire Clip took it. The only reason that their plans fell apart was because, you know, Wingard lost control of Gene and Gene was able to dude had one job to undo the tiny lock that they put on his helmet.

SPEAKER_00: 50:40

It's so cute. It's like the kind of lock that you find on uh on a children's diary. Yeah, it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 50:48

Like the kind of thing you could just like smash open with a hammer. Yeah. I'm trying to find the page, uh, and this isn't necessarily for inclusion, but I must have missed it. Like, do you know where in here it is explained that it's Gene, like this, like seeing Scott die in the astral plane?

SPEAKER_00: 51:07

I think it's when she's creepily confronting him. Confronting a wing guard? Yeah. Uh yeah, so it's you made a mistake, Jason. You slew the man I loved before my eyes. Instead of severing my last connection with the X-Men, that acted like a bucket of ice water in my face. Okay, yeah. These are some crazy are these the panels that you're alluding to from earlier? Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 51:35

The panel that I want to bring to your attention. It's not it, it's a couple pages after where Gene like I do love the illustration of like Wolverine in the dark with Scott and Gene monot like menacingly approaching Jason. The menacing is really good. It's and the dark one is good too. Like it's it's all very cool. Even this like little scene at the bottom where she is, you know, telling him like instead of enslaving me forever, you shocked me awake and you set me free, and your power is nothing. Like, that is a really cool scene, but that is not the one I want to draw to your attention. We see I think I figured it out now. We see Gene unleash, like truly unleash her powers. Like, this is probably the moment where Gene stops being Gene and becomes Dark Phoenix, right? We've never truly seen Gene use her powers this way. Like, even this like zoom in on Jason's eye to illustrate this fear that he's experiencing. And then on the next page, we have this awesome John Byrne special of like his his astral body kind of being illustrated with these whites as like the galaxy is kind of like positioned behind the silhouette of Jason as he is like having a manic episode and like galaxies are exploding or stars are exploding. It's awesome. I love it.

SPEAKER_00: 53:05

It's a crazy panel. That's some crazy trippy art. That must have taken forever. It really must have taken forever.

SPEAKER_01: 53:13

And good on the color is too for filling that in, because that must have been a real pain in the ass. Yeah. And speaking of cool art, uh, I also just want to quickly mention the cover of this issue is also awesome. We get this image of the two different sides, right? The Hellfire on one side, we get the X-Men on the other. In the middle, we see Gene and this big phoenix in the backdrop, which I have many, many times and will always continue to stand this. But anytime you want to give me that phoenix in the backdrop, I'll I love it. I eat it up, man.

SPEAKER_00: 53:54

It's so good. We've seen this cover before. Like the one that I think of is when they're on the spaceship fighting the Sentinels that are fake X-Men. And it's like X-Men versus X-Men, new team versus old team, blah, blah, blah. This one is a way better version of that. The blacks and the reds and the Phoenix backdrop, like you said, it's a very cool cover. It's easy for Wolverine to get a little lost though, because he's so small.

SPEAKER_01: 54:22

I I'll I'll even say too, I I don't know that I see the Hellfire Club on the right.

SPEAKER_00: 54:28

Like um, I can see how that's Shaw. Um apart from that. Really? I don't see how that's Shaw. But I mean, he kind of looks like Shaw mixed with Mo from The Simpsons, but oh, and I guess like the smallest one or the one in the way back is Jason, I suppose. Yeah, I think that's Jason, and then it's uh I was my mind was trying to see Pierce there, and it was like, that's not happening. No, Lee Leland's in the middle. He's got that big beard.

SPEAKER_01: 55:01

A great big bushy beard. Yeah, you're right though. That Logan does kind of blend in with uh between Scott and Colossus there, but regardless, it's an awesome cover, and you're right. We have seen this kind of many, many times over at this point of uh, you know, whatever, dueling sides clashing. Very cool though. I I really, really love this cover.

SPEAKER_00: 55:23

Super awesome. One of my favorite parts of this book, and I don't know if this is a normal thing or if you don't think it were if you really liked this part. I love the whole Wolverine and Leland situation. I think it's a really fun way to resolve their fight versus just like, oh, you know, one of them triumphed over the other. It's more, you know, this guy's not experienced in combat, probably. He's a fancy aristocrat. You know, other people do his fighting for him. So he acts instinctively, he makes Wolverine very heavy, Wolverine falls down on him, and then the whole like Scott saying, What happened to Leland? And Wolverine's just don't ask. I feel like there's a lot left up for interpretation there. Did Wolverine kill him? Did he get so heavy that he squashed him like a bug and it was really gross? There's a lot of, you know, what exactly happened here? And I think it's really fun to read that don't ask in different ways and interpret it in different ways, and kind of headcanon my way into like continuing that that side story.

SPEAKER_01: 56:37

I mean, it would have been a really cool scene to maybe play, but yeah, I agree. I think the leaving it up to your imagination probably does it better than having it laid out, right? Like sometimes less is more, and this is a good example of that.

SPEAKER_00: 56:53

Earlier we had talked about, you know, whether or not this was that instance of, you know, X-Men fall to the enemy, they learn their lessons, they triumph over the enemy. And I had made the argument that that didn't necessarily happen here. And I'm sticking to it because Shaw does escape Kurt and Storm. I think at a certain point it kind of seems like he I think he could have triumphed. Like he could have won this fight, but is more like, ah, I'm I gotta run away. I don't want to deal with, you know, whatever, or you know, who knows, the Phoenix comes down there. But I mean, I think he still kind of, you know, he escapes them. Uh Colossus kind of has another really low moment, I suppose. Like yeah, getting shocked in the face. Yeah, he just gets electrocuted in the eyes and blinded for like a second, and then Pierce is gone.

SPEAKER_01: 57:48

I think to your point, like Shaw does make actually uh mention to that, right? Like he escapes and runs into Pierce, and Pierce almost seems a little taken aback by how calm he is. And he's just like, Yeah, this isn't my first time facing failure. Like, we'll regroup and we'll come back and learn from our mistakes. Like it's a very tactful retreat rather than, you know, I'll get you next time. Which is kind of more uh like Meg Meter motif, I think. You know, like that's more of the role that he plays. Like, I'll get you next time, X-Men. You'll see. I'm up here on my asteroid.

SPEAKER_00: 58:32

There's different degrees to how villains react to losing to the X-Men. There's, you know, Shaw's, eh, we'll get them next time. We're gonna learn from this. There's Magneto's mustache twirling, I'm gonna get you next time, I'll murder you. And then there's Arcade who's like, eh, and just launches everybody away in like a ball. He's like, I stopped caring about this.

SPEAKER_01: 58:56

This is stupid. I'm gonna go make another murder amusement park somewhere else with other heroes and blackjack and hookers. You'll see. I felt overall the three books for me. I originally wrote an eight out of ten, but honestly, discussing them with you, I'm gonna lower that score. I I would give this like a seven out of ten. The middle book and some of the meandering that happens throughout all three takes me out a little bit at times. And there's a lot I liked. The Logan stuff I liked, the introduction of the Hellfire Club I liked, um, the setup for Dark Phoenix that we get at the end, I like. So I'll be very good setup. I'll be kind of curious like how I feel after we read the Dark Phoenix books, because I think that would provide a little bit of context as to like where are we going? What is about to happen? Like, how is what we've just read playing into the bigger story? So, not that I'm ever gonna go back and revise this, but. I think for me, I'll give it like a seven out of ten. It was like pretty solid. There's a lot I liked. I liked a lot of the art that we saw. Mm-hmm. Like it was a solid story, but yeah, seven out of ten for me.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:13

Yeah. I mean, numbers-wise, I'm probably more in that like seven and a half to eight area. You know, I think we we do see that very kind of typical start great, dips down, gets better pattern that we've seen a lot with certain arcs. But I mean, like, I feel like, you know, sometimes the conversation just naturally veers into like a nitpiggy sort of area. Yeah, that's fair. And comparing like these three to like spending a couple of issues with arcade. I think we're just getting kind of spoiled at this point of like they've been the last several issues have just been like all hits, basically. Even the even like the low points are still like a step up of like where we were like a couple years ago or something like that, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:04

That's actually a very good point. And I think considering considering I'm changing my score again of going back to an eight. And the reason we're just getting spoiled. We are getting spoiled. And when you you're right, when you look at the bigger picture, these issues all stand out as being fantastic. I think where our nitpicking comes in is it's a lot of the same issues that we just kind of see rolled over, rolled over, rolled over, rolled over. And that kind of makes those small problems seem so much bigger. The meandering that we've talked a lot about is a very good example of that. And I think at this point, when we see it taking place because of how we're consuming this, it feels way worse. It just feels like a consistent problem that stands out to us because we're reading these at you know, three to four issues at a time.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:56

And so And to be fair, like the entire Proteus arc was so like well constructed and tight, like there was no meandering. Yeah. And not everything can just be that like it just felt extremely well planned and outlined and executed.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:15

You're 100% correct. And I'm not even trying to compare these to Proteus, you know, I don't know that that's a very fair comparison. Um, or at least like I, you know, for me, as I stated before, that was like a 10 out of 10 or 9 out of 10 or whatever is like practically perfect. It's you're right. I in in like your assessment that I do think we tend to nitpick, but I I think that's like by nature of being, you know, kind of reviewing these books through a critical lens, but we also highlight a lot of the things that we're gonna do. That's what you do with something you like.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:46

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, and I'm gonna kind of I think that's part of our personalities to, you know, if we enjoy something, part of us does want to pick at it a little bit. And I think that's you know, part of our just how we've done things over the years, uh like reviewed video games and things like that. Yeah, you gotta dig in and just pick at it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:11

I mean, yeah, you gotta pick at it, but like I I think it's fair to be critical, especially when it's the same things we're being critical about, right? Like we're not like we're we're pointing out the same mistake, and it's a mistake to us, obviously it's subjective, but we wanna see things move along and see improvements in the spaces where we're seeing it falter, and it's just hasn't happened yet. Like it, you know, like and you're right, when we look at the big picture, right? Like from where we started to now, it's it's like we're reading an entirely different book by an entirely different creative team, and the story overall is very enjoyable. So there you go. Eight out of ten, revised, revised, revised final scene.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:57

Didn't you say like a few minutes ago that you weren't gonna go back and revise?

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:02

I did. I was I was referring to going back after we finished Dark Phoenix and revising my score because I was I was determined to stick with a seven out of ten. But given our conversation on the critical, I am going, I'm gonna go back to an eight out of ten because that's what I wrote down before.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:21

And as we've already discussed, it's my words against me.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:25

As we've already discussed, sometimes you just have to pick C because that's the number or the letter that you want to go with.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:31

Always pick C. That does it for this episode of Uncanny Book Club. Thanks for listening, and we hope to see you next episode where we'll discuss issues 135 and 136. Go watch the Dark Phoenix movie because I will. Don't do it. Okay. Bye everyone. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Uncanny Book Club. If you enjoyed this podcast, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, or share with a friend.